This is topic Pretty in Pink ////| VS |\\\\ Some Kind of Wonderful in forum « 80's Movies at iRewind Talk.


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Posted by Bearcatrock (Member # 9385) on :
 
Hi,

I noticed this has been touched on in a few other threads but thought some of you might be up on expanding your defense of either movie. Both films are often compared due to the very similar lead character triangle, writer, director, etc., but what about the execution?

Which film do you think is superior overall?
- Better script?
- Better lead?
- Better support (e.g., Annie Potts VS. Elias Koteas)?
- Holds up better over time?

To be absolutely clear, this does not necessarily presupposed that one of the movies is bad. I love both, but heaping amounts of praise and friendly criticism is the plasma that runs through many healthy forums.

Thanks!
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
I grew up watching Pretty In Pink and have always loved it. Our beloved Molly, and what can I say....I love the Duck Man. A great villian in Mr Spader, the beautiful villianess, Ms Vernon, who doesn't love Harry Dean Stanton, Annie did a great job, and an 80's movie with Andrew Dice Clay!

Also, the soundtrack introduced me to Echo's "Bring On The Dancing Horses", and the Smith's "Please please please..."..."If You Leave" by OMD, the title track by the Furs....all good stuff.

I thought the character developement was great as at points in the movie, I genuinley felt the sorrow of several characters...Mr Walsh's downward spiral after the loss of his true love, Iona's desperate search for love, Steff's obvious realization that money isn't everything, and the poor Duck Man...even though they hooked him up with the beautiful Ms Swanson at the end, and even though I didn't really see him and Andy together...to love someone so much and not have it returned....ouch...that hurts. All this without even mentioning the main characters.....

* I will say one thing though...I missed out on "Some Kind Of Wonderful" when I was young, and have only seen it semi recently with a push from the Rewind. Certainly loved the movie, but we all know the power of watching something in your impressionable years...hard to buck. In fairness, I'd like to watch SKOW again, as I've only seen it once (actually had it in hand last night, but after watching American Pickers, knew the movie would be well past me bedtime). I aim to re-watch SKOW very soon, though remain doubtful it will ever surpass my love for Pretty In Pink.

* Now this will get some blood boiling...given that Pretty In Pink was first on the scene...isn't SKOW simply a lesser known rip off...I mean...they even stole the title track (PIP) to put on their soundtrack...shameless. Hee hee hee haa haa haa hoo hoo hoo.....hum. Oh...yes I did!
 
Posted by P a u l (Member # 1022) on :
 
One more time......

The ending to PIP was changed after less-than-favorable critical reviews from test audiences. So the movie isn't what John Hughes ever wanted.

SKOW, on the other hand, has the proper, Hughes approved, intended plot from start to finish. So not a rip off in any way. If anything, PIP is a failed draft of SKOW.....
 
Posted by Secret Admirer (Member # 3574) on :
 
Right from the start, I'm a boy, and I identify with Stoltz's Keith much better than Ringwald's Andie. The story of Some Kind of Wonderful just suits me better overall.

The relationship between Andie and Blaine seemed awkward and there is a lot of overreaction going on. It seemed unnatural in many ways and the tension forced.

The relationship between Keith and Amanda seemed to have the correct amount awkwardness. She was the object of his desire, put up on a pedestal, and once he got to know her, of course she didn't meet his high expectations. The first date was bound to be a mess, but it worked out for both of them in the right ways.

Pretty In Pink does have one biggie over SKOW, and that is James Spader. I'm a huge Steff fan, and the character is one of my favorites of all 80s movies. That is all thanks to Spader's portrayal. Perfection.

Craig Sheffer is really good as Hardy Jenns, and it is also a great sleazy character, but nobody can match up against Spader's Steff. Good performance by Sheffer though, I can't complain at all.

I'm a big fan of Harry Dean Stanton, but I will admit, he doesn't have much to work with here and doesn't shine as much as usual.

I prefer Keith's father, played by John Ashton. "Where's the f*cking money, Keith!" is a classic line for me. I love this performance.

Duckie is a wonderful character, and definitely elevates PIP as a whole. John Cryer is amazing in this role and it's arguably one of the most memorable performances in 80s teen movies. Duckie is much loved.

I'm neutral to Annie Pott's character, Iona. A friend that was more Andie's age could have possibly enhanced the story more.

Keith's two sisters are the best. His teenage sis, Laura, is credible. There's a good balance of love/hate going on there. The youngest sister, played by Candace Cameron, is very cute and delivers some classic lines at the family dinner table.

The way Blaine dealt with his friends and Andie was pretty wimpy. Like I said earlier, I didn't believe all this struggle and stress, it was very awkward. Maybe it was the writing, maybe it was the acting.

On the other hand, I thought Lea Thompson handled her friends and scuzzy ex-boyfriend in a manner more realistic. The party scene is over the top, of course, but overall nothing out of the ordinary here. She did a good job portraying the struggle between being who she is and what her friends want her to be.

Let's talk about Watts AKA Drummer Girl. What a woman! That opening sequence with her on the drums, playing to 'Abuse' by Propaganda, is one of my favorite movie openings. She's got the attitude and that kiss between Keith and her - whoa! It is a great character and Mary Stuart Masterson is almost as good as John Cryer in this similar role.

The soundtracks for both films are top-notch. I prefer SKOW's because I identified with the music better and therefore listened to it more growing up. That being said, I can't deny the greatness that is Pretty In Pink's soundtrack. It's legendary and deserves the praise it gets.

At the end of the day, Some kind Of Wonderful just holds up better for me. I prefer the storyline, characters, and music to that of Pretty In Pink.

edit: I should add that I saw both movies at around the same time as youngster, so the sentimental favorite element doesn't come into play for me.

[ 12. January 2011, 11:04: Message edited by: Secret Admirer ]
 
Posted by logan5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
Which film do you think is superior overall?
- Better script?
- Better lead?
- Better support (e.g., Annie Potts VS. Elias Koteas)?
- Holds up better over time?

I prefer PiP, but it only wins by 1/8th of a second! They're both GOLD! Choosing one or the other is like being asked to pick which eye you'd rather lose!

quote:
- Better script?
I think SKoW has better dialogue - it's snappier. But it could be argued that the dialogue is too clever, and therefore unrealistic. It also lacks some of realistic awkward pauses that appear in PiP throughout the movie.

But having said that, I would still go with SKoW for best script (by just a little).

quote:
- Better lead?
Ringworm does more with her emotional range, which is both a good and a bad thing. In terms of likability, I'm gonna have to go with Stoltz rather than Molly. So SKoW wins again.

quote:
- Better support (e.g., Annie Potts VS. Elias Koteas)?
If it came down to Annie vs Elias, I think the fight would go SKoW again. But it isn't. For PiP we have: Spader; the bitchy girls; Annie; Harry Dean Stanton; Andrew Clay. For SKoW we have; the sister; Elias; Scheffer; the dad. These things are coming up soooo close, and I find the sister really funny and Elias great, but I'm going to give it to PiP. Those girls were on the nose for me as far as bitches go.

quote:
- Holds up better over time?
I think they both hold up well, and I think modern teens would like them both. There are strikes against PiP in terms of holding up, and they are; the songs on the soundtrack are well-known songs from the era, which dates it more than the relatively obscure tracks from SKoW. Second; the fashions - when PiP was made the preppy look and the thrift store look was still in, but by the time of SKoW that had softened, and the indie rock looks of blue jeans and leather jackets had started a comeback. Since jeans and leather are semi-timeless, I think that might date PiP a little more.

quote:
To be absolutely clear, this does not necessarily presupposed that one of the movies is bad. I love both, but heaping amounts of praise and friendly criticism is the plasma that runs through many healthy forums.
This is a contentious issue!

quote:
The ending to PIP was changed after less-than-favorable critical reviews from test audiences. So the movie isn't what John Hughes ever wanted.
Ok... good so far...

quote:
SKOW, on the other hand, has the proper, Hughes approved, intended plot from start to finish. So not a rip off in any way. If anything, PIP is a failed draft of SKOW.....
Ok, that's it! I've sat on my hands... I've hummed and put fingers in my ears... I've looked the other way... but I've had all I can stand and I can't stands no more!

Hughes admitted that the chemistry between Molly and Jon had been wrong, and also that he hadn't convincingly made the audience want Molly to be with Jon - because he'd come across like a geeky lovesick puppy (my words - not Hughes'). I happen to think that the re-written ending is one of the best parts of PiP, with these minor quibbles: Andrew looks sick (lovesick?), Duckie breaks the fourth wall (ok I love that, but it is a weakness), Duckie gets a cute girl (I love that too, but it's tokenistic). I'm not sure it could be considered a "failed draft" just because the ending needed to be changed. A lot of films are fixed in production, because things seldom work out as planned. "Failed draft" implies PiP didn't work as a cohesive movie - which it did. Look at it this way; SKoW was written with Molly in mind for the part of Amanda, but she refused to do it. Do we then consider SKoW abortive because the part Hughes had written for Molly to play was played by someone else? SKoW isn't - on casting grounds alone - the movie Hughes wanted either, but is it weaker for that?

Yes, PiP didn't end the way he wanted, but the ending is (as far as I can tell) better than the one he'd written originally (and it made more sense). So to me, the film became stronger for going against Hughes initial vision. In the interest of balance, I could easily point out that in his need to reinforce the oddball sidekick being attractive and wanting the audience to root for her in SKoW, we ended up with a sidekick that would be (in real life) almost impossible to overlook; she's beautiful, stylish, individual, witty, loyal, strong, etc. For every girl who ever thought that Molly was sucker for not picking Duckie, there are guys who couldn't believe that Keith would spend the whole movie basically overlooking Watts. Yes, we have suspension of disbelief, but the reality is; guys like Duckie do get rejected by the objects of their affection (at least in high-school) girls like Watts seldom do. If I sound like I'm trying to tear SKoW a new one - I'm not. I love it, but it's verrrry easy to get nit-picky where personal preference is concerned.

Finally, I shall end with; I agree that SKoW is not a rip-off. I've made jokes about that before. But you have to admit (as you did above), that it is at the very least a re-write. Without the 'flawed' ending of PiP, there would be no SKoW (at least not the same). They are connected.

Why does there always have to be a shootout between the two? There's room in my top ten for both.
 
Posted by Muffy Tepperman (Member # 1551) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by P a u l:
One more time......

The ending to PIP was changed after less-than-favorable critical reviews from test audiences. So the movie isn't what John Hughes ever wanted.

SKOW, on the other hand, has the proper, Hughes approved, intended plot from start to finish. So not a rip off in any way. If anything, PIP is a failed draft of SKOW.....

I've never felt why people think this...even though it's true??? I would have never wanted to see Andie end up with Duckie. The fact Hughes wrote it that way drives me crazy....Andie never expressed any feeling for Duckie other then "you dork....you're annoying me" tell me one line where she says something to Duckie that is even affectionate? [Smile]

....like Secret Admirer I saw both @ the same time back then....i've always loved both....they are must haves for any 80's lover.

But asked to compare....SKOW is the winner!

PIP- "unnatural and tension forced" agreed....."Keith and Amanda correct amount of awkwardness" agreed.

In the scene where Keith gives her the earrings it still makes me cringe! Amanda's face and crooked smile and Keith's naivety...although I scream at Keith "you stupid dork!!!" it's the correct awkwardness....I love that as an adult this scene bothers me.....because i've lived through relationships....something as a kid I couldn't have understood....how that buildup wasn't there for those teenagers, how truly awkward it was if that makes sense?

I actually loved Iona....but I get what SA says about "a friend more her age" Jena? but maybe she was more just her friend at school that stood up for her when needed.

So yes Keith's family, soundtrack, script, more lovable lead, (and i'm a girl!) an awesome supporting cast.....don't forget Scott Coffey!

 -

make SKOW the clear winner for me.
 
Posted by Ronnie (Member # 465) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Muffy Tepperman:
I would have never wanted to see Andie end up with Duckie. The fact Hughes wrote it that way drives me crazy....Andie never expressed any feeling for Duckie other then "you dork....you're annoying me" tell me one line where she says something to Duckie that is even affectionate? [Smile]

THANK YOU!!! not trying to go off topic here, but i have never understood why anyone wanted duckie with andie??? he was annoying and immature. obviously i am not a duckie fan, like others. jon cryer was definitely good in that role, no doubt.

to be honest, in regards to SKOW... the only issue i had with that movie, was the fact that keith spends the entire movie chasing after amanda, blows his life savings, rounding up a classic car, expensive dinner and has his friends get him access to a romantic place after hours, and does a painting of her, and gets it hung in a museum no less... all this just to impress her. and in a split second at the end of the movie, he runs off with watts... it just never made me believe he really loved her all along.

i am not bashing the movie, i love it very much. and i love the music. just my point of view..
so i guess hughes doesn't win me over in the end there, but i think PIP's ending was perfect.
 
Posted by Devolution (Member # 1731) on :
 
Devolution here,

I think the relevance was the realization of the love for Watts at the end. Kind of like the same way it's done in Clueless years later.

We are DEVO
 
Posted by Muffy Tepperman (Member # 1551) on :
 
Thanks Ronnie for the kudos...haha [Smile] I am a Duckie fan though...just never thought he should end up with Andie....you're right Cryer was good.

I like what you say Devo with it being like Clueless..the realization...and that kiss early on in the garage there was steam, helped the buildup for me.
 
Posted by Ronnie (Member # 465) on :
 
the kiss in the garage was great, and i thought keith's reaction to her pulling away was very cute. the song used in that scene is perfect.
i am going to have to listen to the soundtrack again. it's been a while.
 
Posted by Muffy Tepperman (Member # 1551) on :
 
Good call Ronnie! I've had it in my car all week [Smile]
 
Posted by Bearcatrock (Member # 9385) on :
 
Ms. Tepperman... bonus points for bringing up Scott Coffey! I forgot how great he was - especially the fake making out scene.

There are some fantastic points in here. Thanks for sharing everyone and keep it coming.
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
Well, thanks to a minor slip on my front step resulting in some decent lower back strain, and the cortizone needle this morning shoved right into my heel...only until it hits the bone the doctor said...my wife has m proped up with some pillows in bed, gave me BBQ chips and Pepsi for breakfast, and took full reign over our little guy...I was able to watch Some Kind Of Wonderful this morning...my second viewing of the movie.

What can I say....I really like the movie. Though for fun, I will say...cut Amanda's hair just a little bit shorter and....her and Keith are like...twins! And, I agree with an earlier comment about Watts being just a bit too butch...now she's still cute and all, but the hair a bit longer wouldn't have hurt!

Certainly still room for SKOW in my top (15) 80's movies of all time, though, I still prefer PIP by a decent margin, though, it appears I may be the minority here. I actually haven't heard the SKOW soundtrack, but hope to remedy that soon.
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
PIP- "unnatural and tension forced" agreed....."Keith and Amanda correct amount of awkwardness" agreed.
Are we talking movie natural, or real life natural? Because to me they're two different things.

I'll come out to bat for PiP again by highlighting one of my favourite scenes... the record shop scene:

Duckie enters and does a silly dance which reinforces him as the character we've already seen; goofy, campy, over the top. Duckie is comedy relief to the audience. Andie starts talking about being stood up, Duckie is confused. Then Blane appears at the window and Duckie gets it:

"Um... Andie?"

 -

In about 30 seconds Duckie goes from being someone we don't take seriously, to being someone we actually feel for more than our heroine. Credit to Jon Cryer's acting, he is totally convincing as someone that has just experienced an emotional punch in the stomach, and suddenly the comic relief is a human being with thoughts and feelings - not just an accessory to the lead's thoughts and feelings.

The dialogue that follows between Duckie and Andie is totally convincing teen dialogue. It's not slick and fast and 'scripted', there's lots of stammering, it's not filled with one-two zingers, with two clever characters out-clevering each other. It's teen dialogue complete with frustration, awkwardness, and desperation. Duckie is confused, hurt, angry, and his words underline that, and Andie's attempts to reason with him don't work - as they shouldn't:

"You're gonna go out with this guy? Is this, like, a date?"

"Yeah. I mean, you'd like him. He's not like the other guys. Seriously."

"No. No way. Andie! You've really p!ssed me off cos they sh!t all over everybody, including you. I just... I can't believe you'd be this stupid!"

"Who's sh!tting on me? I'm not gonna let anybody sh!t on me!"

"He's just... he's gonna use your a$s and throw you away! God, I would have died for you!"

"So what am I supposed to do? He asked me out and I like him - just listen to me! - if I hate him because he's got money, that's the exact same thing as them hating us because we don't. Do you Understand?"

"You can't do this and... and... respect yourself. You... you ju... you can't."

"Well I'll make that decision, all right?"

"Sure, you... you can do what you want!"

"You're talking like that just because I'm going out with Blane."

"Blane? His... his name is Blane?! Oh... that's... that's a major appliance that's not a name!"

"Just because I'm going out with BLANE doesn't mean I can't be friends with you. I mean it doesn't change the way I feel about you."

"Oh, well that's very nice... I'm... I'm glad. Here's... here's the point Andie... I'm... I'm not particularly concerned with whether or not you like me. Cos I live to like you... and... and... and I can't like you any more. So... so when you get your heart splattered all over hell and... and you're feeling really low and dirty, don't... don't look to me to help pump you back up, 'cause... 'cause maybe for the first time in your life I won't be there!"

"I can't believe you're actually saying this."

"I guess that's just tough sh!t!"


 -

He's childish, petulant, angry and hurt, and he says exactly what a teenager would say. And what's more Jon Cryer is completely convincing. Just one of the reasons I love Pretty in Pink.
 
Posted by Muffy Tepperman (Member # 1551) on :
 
Good call Logan! I'll give you that! I was assuming the "unnatural and tension forced" was Blaine and Andie..the love interests...and I still feel that way...plus it got worse as you start noticiing Andrew's wig lol the whole end gets ruined a little cause I can't stop staring at his wig!
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
Nice one logan...I just shed a tear. That's what I meant earlier about genuinely caring for the characters in PIP. I can honestly say that SKOW was not very emotional for me until the end scene, which I'll admit was nice....but the only time my tear ducts filled and almost overflowethed....and yes....that is a real word!
 
Posted by Veronica Sawyer (Member # 2221) on :
 
one of the most emotional scenes in SKOW for me is when Watts confronts Keith at the club towards the middle of the movie...It's so emotional because you can see how lovesick she is over Keith and how the whole Amanda thing is tearing her apart, but he just doesn't get it.

"Because I'm driving you crazy and you're driving me crazy and I'd rather not see you and have you think good things about me than have you see me and hate me. 'Cause I can't afford to have you hate me, Keith. The only things I care about in this goddamn life are me and my drums and you."
 
Posted by Muffy Tepperman (Member # 1551) on :
 
nice Veronica! "my drums and you" that's when I start balling........Duckie was more goofy so you felt more sympathy for him then genuine heartfelt.
 
Posted by Valley (Member # 1322) on :
 
Don't you people have to work?? I can't keep up with all the discussion.. love it! [Cool]

The 'my drums and you' is just so awesome Veronica!

Even though both PIP & SKOW have quite similar plots.. I have to go with "Some Kind of Wonderful". As SA mentioned somewhere in all this chatting.. it is probably because I more easily identify with Keith. Plus, I'm a fan of Amanada Jones!

The way I decided was by put both DVDs in my hands and asking myself which one would a let someone borrow .. and in borrow that might mean never seeing it again. - Sorry Duckman..

btw, did everyone know that Molly Ringwald was asked to play Watts first and she turned it down because she felt the script was too close to "Pretty In Pink"?
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
"Because I'm driving you crazy and you're driving me crazy and I'd rather not see you and have you think good things about me than have you see me and hate me. 'Cause I can't afford to have you hate me, Keith. The only things I care about in this goddamn life are me and my drums and you."
That is an emotional scene. But I never really understood why Keith didn't notice that Watts was almost falling apart. I was never sure if he was supposed to be unaware of her feelings, or aware of them but ignoring them because he didn't feel the same, or aware of them and partially feeling the same but was too busy being fixated on Amanda Jones. Hmm.

quote:
The way I decided was by put both DVDs in my hands and asking myself which one would a let someone borrow .. and in borrow that might mean never seeing it again. - Sorry Duckman..
Neither for me. Like I say... left eye or right eye - which is it gonna be?

quote:
btw, did everyone know that Molly Ringwald was asked to play Watts first and she turned it down because she felt the script was too close to "Pretty In Pink"?
I thought she was supposed to play Amanda Jones?
 
Posted by Valley (Member # 1322) on :
 
Logan.. until recently I thought that same thing about Molly Ringwald and Amanda Jones, but here's a recent quote from Ringwald about John Hughes:

"No. John wanted me to be in Some Kind of Wonderful. I declined because I felt like the script wasn't strong enough and was too derivative of the other films I'd already made with John. He wanted me to play the role of a character called Watts, which went to Mary Stuart Masterson, but I was ready to graduate from high school."
 
Posted by P a u l (Member # 1022) on :
 
Ringwald would NEVER have played the Watts role as we know it and would probably have ruined the movie. Thankfully, Ringwald got a touch starstruck, believed her own press cuttings a little too much, and declined to work with the ultimate movie genius of the decade.

The rest, as they say, is history.
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
Man I am gonna get lynched here but here goes:

They both sucked.

I hope nobody can track me through my whereabouts through my IP adress or I'm in big trouble.
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
Ummmmm....you "Weekend At Bernie's" lover.... [Razz]
 
Posted by P a u l (Member # 1022) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bernie_Lomax:
Man I am gonna get lynched here but here goes:

They both sucked.

BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Bernie_Lomax:
I hope nobody can track me through my whereabouts through my IP adress or I'm in big trouble.

You'd be surprised exactly how close it's possible to get from an IP address.... [Wink]
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
Man I got a quick response on that one.

Nah, not trying to have a dig but I really did not enjoy those movies.

for me Pretty in Pink is all bad,

and the only thing I like about SKOW is how gorgeous Mary Stewart Masterson looks.
 
Posted by P a u l (Member # 1022) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bernie_Lomax:
Man I got a quick response on that one.

Nah, not trying to have a dig but I really did not enjoy those movies.

for me Pretty in Pink is all bad,

and the only thing I like about SKOW is how gorgeous Mary Stewart Masterson looks.

So....

Another vote for SKOW? Seeing as there IS one thing you like.... [Razz]
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
Ok.

SKOW is definitely better. But I didn't think that much of both the movies.

But yeah SKOW hands down.
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
Paul...I'm sure you would have grabbed that vote even if Bernie stated he likes the color blue better than pink....shameless.... [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by P a u l (Member # 1022) on :
 
I'll take a shameless vote for SKOW over a mature and reasonable vote against it any day... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
[Big Grin]
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
And Bernie...isn't there a guy in Pretty In Pink that's in one of your obvious favorite movies...if you didn't like both movies, then at least I thought that might have encouraged you...plus...you're encouraging Paul....
 
Posted by Helen_S (Member # 5804) on :
 
I bought Pretty in Pink recently. I haven't seen it in many years. I will have to soon to settle this matter haha [Big Grin] [Razz]
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kevdugp73:
And Bernie...isn't there a guy in Pretty In Pink that's in one of your obvious favorite movies...if you didn't like both movies, then at least I thought that might have encouraged you...plus...you're encouraging Paul....

Yeah I adore Andrew McCarthy but while he is a very talented actor he couldn't keep that whole movie afloat.

I honestly think SKOW is the better film though, and Paul got to me first so what can I say.
 
Posted by P a u l (Member # 1022) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kevdugp73:
And Bernie...isn't there a guy in Pretty In Pink that's in one of your obvious favorite movies...if you didn't like both movies, then at least I thought that might have encouraged you...plus...you're encouraging Paul....

Kev, I don't need no encouraging.... just ask anybody!

[Big Grin]
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
Ringwald would NEVER have played the Watts role as we know it and would probably have ruined the movie. Thankfully, Ringwald got a touch starstruck, believed her own press cuttings a little too much, and declined to work with the ultimate movie genius of the decade.
Ringwald could never have been Watts.

quote:
I bought Pretty in Pink recently. I haven't seen it in many years. I will have to soon to settle this matter haha [Big Grin] [Razz]
I'm not sure it's settle-able Helen! I think the issue here is people are being forced to choose one or t'other - which is difficult. It's like State's rights... it could lead to war!

quote:
I honestly think SKOW is the better film though, and Paul got to me first so what can I say.
You can say:

"After a period of deep soul-searching, I have decided that PiP is the bestest. If Italy can switch sides in two World Wars - I can switch sides here. Andrew McCarthy, James Spader, The Psychedelic Furs; I have to choose PiP. Plus Kev and Logan really look up to me for my dress sense and taste in movies, so I couldn't let them down."

Just sayin'.
 
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
 
If Bernie was in "Sophie's Choice"...he'd have given up the wrong movie!
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kevdugp73:
If Bernie was in "Sophie's Choice"...he'd have given up the wrong movie!

Huh?
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
"After a period of deep soul-searching, I have decided that PiP is the bestest. If Italy can switch sides in two World Wars - I can switch sides here. Andrew McCarthy, James Spader, The Psychedelic Furs; I have to choose PiP. Plus Kev and Logan really look up to me for my dress sense and taste in movies, so I couldn't let them down."

Just sayin'. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Logan, you put a fairly convincing argument, but PiP still loses. I like your guys enthusiasm trying to convince someone to change their vote.

It would have been more convincing though if you said, just switch sides to irritate Paul. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
Oh... er... I forgot to say...

*COUGH!*

Just switch sides to irritate Paul!

*COUGH!*

No, seriously. It's obviously a free choice you've made. If my point about Italy wasn't good enough to change your mind, then I guess nothing would be. If suggesting you turn against the fascists wasn't enough, then what more can I say? I mean, if you really agree with the Nazis and what they did, then sure - stay where you are. Me and Kev... we'll fight on anyway... we like to breathe the sweet air of freedom... waves of amber grain... that kind of thing. But who knows, maybe, just maybe, against all odds, Kev and I will pull this out of the bag and win even wihout your much-needed skills and support. Maybe the children of the world will really have a future.

Maybe.
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
Logan,

Well I heard the holocaust was a myth anyway.

Ok lets shake things up to make it interesting.

Yep, definitely Pretty in Pink.

It was the best movie of all time.

The zoom ins, the framing, I was enchanted.

I mean come on what classic 80's movie doesn't have Andrew Dice Clay.

the inspirational wisdom of Harry Dean Stanton could leave Socrates winded.

And yes highly believable that Ringwald is so sort after.

Sorry Paul - It looks like Pretty in Pink has the vote.
 
Posted by P a u l (Member # 1022) on :
 
For what it's worth, Italy never switched in WW2. So by switching, you're agreeing with everything you've just abandoned....

Just thought I'd mention it, Mr 'soon-to-have-an-embarrassing -user-title'.

[Smile]
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
Things are heating up.

Do you have any possible name changes in mind?
 
Posted by Secret Admirer (Member # 3574) on :
 
Anyone else have any thoughts on these two movies or comparisons? I'd like to hear from the original poster since they never gave us their thoughts.
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
For what it's worth, Italy never switched in WW2. So by switching, you're agreeing with everything you've just abandoned....
Are we talking officially or technically? In WWI they failed to honour their treaties with the central powers and came in with the Allies because they felt they could gain more. In WWII they wanted to switch sides after Mussolini was deposed, but Britain wouldn't let them, so they switched ideologically but not officially (Germany, of course, then invaded them, because it knew Italy would not resist an Allied occupation).

Having said that; at this point I'm so confused as to what standing for each side in this debate means, all I can say is...

Vive la France!
 
Posted by Fightertown (Member # 7418) on :
 
 -
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
Oh yeah. She is so hot.

If I ever see a girl that looks like that I am definitely gonna aske her out.

Mary Sturat Masterson.....Ughh so gorgeous.

I've got a feeling someone is trying to bait me into changing my vote back with this picture.
 
Posted by Fightertown (Member # 7418) on :
 
mary stewart masterson top 3:

Somekind of Wonderful
Chances Are
At Close Range
 
Posted by Bernie_Lomax (Member # 8571) on :
 
I love Chances Are

SKOW is ok.

At Close Range:

I remember before seeing this thinking, Oh man this is gonna be awesome.

Walken, the Penn's, Masterson...but I remain not a fan.
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
Have to include 'Heaven Help Us' in a MSM top 3.
 
Posted by Secret Admirer (Member # 3574) on :
 
Two of the best teen movies ever. Both have terrific stories, all-star casts, and amazing soundtracks.
 -
 
Posted by Chloe (Member # 37365) on :
 
Both brilliant movies! I really can't choose between them. Both fantastic movies with amazing soundtracks, actors/actresses and scripts. [Smile]
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
Both brilliant movies! I really can't choose between them. Both fantastic movies with amazing soundtracks, actors/actresses and scripts. [Smile]
Chloe, I hate to break it to you, but there's a war going on - go back and re-read the entire thread - you *have* to choose one!

THE CEASEFIRE IS OVER! THE BATTLE HAS BEGUN AGAIN!

Let the Nazis of SKoW come out of the woodwork and try and force their tyranny once more! And once more let the sainted freedom fighters of PiP stand up against them!

"THE SUN'LL COME OUT TOMOROOOOOOOW!"
 
Posted by Jakey V (Member # 37348) on :
 
Pretty In Pink in all aspects. Very simple.
 
Posted by P_a_u_l (Member # 1022) on :
 
Clearly the membership pool needs a little chlorine....
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
Pretty In Pink in all aspects. Very simple.
There's a fella with his head screwed on right.

quote:
Clearly the membership pool needs a little chlorine....
Fascist! You can take away our freedom, but you'll never take our ELO ALBUMS!
 
Posted by Jakey V (Member # 37348) on :
 
Thanks, Logan!
 
Posted by P_a_u_l (Member # 1022) on :
 
You can abuse me all you like. Just remember...


Now, once more: which is the better movie?
 
Posted by the young warrior (Member # 9554) on :
 
This is a tricky one as they are both such likeable movies,I did like the character of Duncan as played by Elias Koteas in Wonderful I thought he was really funny and i did think the ending was preferable to Pink's!

I thought that they both had awesome soundtracks,loved the O.M.D track If You leave as featured in PIP,did find the character of Duckie to be slightly annoying at times,I don't know but I think I'm leaning towards Some kind Of Wonderful.

Yeah I'd say Some kind Of Wonderful for me!
 
Posted by Chloe (Member # 37365) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Logan 5:
quote:
Both brilliant movies! I really can't choose between them. Both fantastic movies with amazing soundtracks, actors/actresses and scripts. [Smile]
Chloe, I hate to break it to you, but there's a war going on - go back and re-read the entire thread - you *have* to choose one!

THE CEASEFIRE IS OVER! THE BATTLE HAS BEGUN AGAIN!

Let the Nazis of SKoW come out of the woodwork and try and force their tyranny once more! And once more let the sainted freedom fighters of PiP stand up against them!

"THE SUN'LL COME OUT TOMOROOOOOOOW!"

It's really hard to choose between them. But overall, I would say Some Kind Of Wonderful! [Smile]
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
Yeah I'd say Some kind Of Wonderful for me!
Alcohol and drugs will ruin a person. You need to get clean. Breathe the sweet air of freedom!

quote:
You can abuse me all you like. Just remember...

I can edit all your posts
I can give you all dumb user titles and user names
I have your email addresses and up addresses
One day, when you least expect it, you will find yourselves called Glenda, Mandy, or Donald


Now, once more: which is the better movie?

Who's abusing who?!

1) Fascist!
2) Fascist!
3) Email me anytime!
4) Call me Donald Trump! That should start some spicey debates!

Which is better... that's kind of like the chicken and egg discussion... which boils down to which came first... and in this case we all know Pretty in Pink came first!
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
It's really hard to choose between them. But overall, I would say Some Kind Of Wonderful! [Smile]
Chloe! Chloester! Chloemeister! Don't be hasty! I know you love Mr. Stoltz (don't we all?) But if he were here he'd want you to choose PiP. He'd place his hand on your shoulder and say:

"Chloe, you're a wonderful girl with a bright future. And this important choice has to be made by you and you alone. But I just wan't to give you a little advice before you choose; be a Jedi not a Sith. I hope you understand what I mean, Chloe, but just in case you don't I'll make it clear: SKoW is the darkside. Just saying."

If I know Eric as well as I think I do, he would - I'm almost certain - say something *exactly* like that! Think twice Chloe! Reconsider! USE THE FORCE CHLOE!
 
Posted by TerdNthePoolGGB (Member # 9818) on :
 
2 of the worst movies EVER!!
 
Posted by TerdNthePoolGGB (Member # 9818) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TerdNthePoolGGB:
2 of the worst movies EVER!!

Woops. Wrong thread [Big Grin]

Since I am here, I'll put in my one cents worth. Since I haven't seen either in 4ever, they both warrant a rewatch.
I would have to go with....drum roll... Some Kind of Wonderful. I would like to add that pretty in pink has to be one of the worst songs made for a movie.........and ever sang. That's the only song I can remember from either movie. I do look forward to watching these 2 flix after reading this thread.

Was talking to a friend about these movies today and he mentioned that he knows a guy that played an extra in SKoW. The extra said he was playing basketball nearbyon a day of filming and some of the main actors would come over and play also. Wouldn't that have been cool!
 
Posted by P_a_u_l (Member # 1022) on :
 
Logan - you're losing. Get over it, otherwise you'll become Jessica 6...
 
Posted by P_a_u_l (Member # 1022) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TerdNthePoolGGB:
quote:
Originally posted by TerdNthePoolGGB:
2 of the worst movies EVER!!

Woops. Wrong thread [Big Grin]

Since I am here, I'll put in my one cents worth. Since I haven't seen either in 4ever, they both warrant a rewatch.
I would have to go with....drum roll... Some Kind of Wonderful. I would like to add that pretty in pink has to be one of the worst songs made for a movie.........and ever sang. That's the only song I can remember from either movie. I do look forward to watching these 2 flix after reading this thread.

Was talking to a friend about these movies today and he mentioned that he knows a guy that played an extra in SKoW. The extra said he was playing basketball nearbyon a day of filming and some of the main actors would come over and play also. Wouldn't that have been cool!

The version of Pretty in Pink rearranged for the movie score basically stripped away everything that the Psychedelic Furs put into it originally. They were pushed into making it far more poppy and commercial, whereas the 1981 original from Talk Talk Talk is a far edgier tune and feel. One of my favorites...
 
Posted by Chloe (Member # 37365) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TerdNthePoolGGB:
quote:
Originally posted by TerdNthePoolGGB:
2 of the worst movies EVER!!

Woops. Wrong thread [Big Grin]

Since I am here, I'll put in my one cents worth. Since I haven't seen either in 4ever, they both warrant a rewatch.
I would have to go with....drum roll... Some Kind of Wonderful. I would like to add that pretty in pink has to be one of the worst songs made for a movie.........and ever sang. That's the only song I can remember from either movie. I do look forward to watching these 2 flix after reading this thread.

Was talking to a friend about these movies today and he mentioned that he knows a guy that played an extra in SKoW. The extra said he was playing basketball nearbyon a day of filming and some of the main actors would come over and play also. Wouldn't that have been cool!

That would be so awesome! Thanks for sharing that with us. [Smile]
 
Posted by Chloe (Member # 37365) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Logan 5:
quote:
It's really hard to choose between them. But overall, I would say Some Kind Of Wonderful! [Smile]
Chloe! Chloester! Chloemeister! Don't be hasty! I know you love Mr. Stoltz (don't we all?) But if he were here he'd want you to choose PiP. He'd place his hand on your shoulder and say:

"Chloe, you're a wonderful girl with a bright future. And this important choice has to be made by you and you alone. But I just wan't to give you a little advice before you choose; be a Jedi not a Sith. I hope you understand what I mean, Chloe, but just in case you don't I'll make it clear: SKoW is the darkside. Just saying."

If I know Eric as well as I think I do, he would - I'm almost certain - say something *exactly* like that! Think twice Chloe! Reconsider! USE THE FORCE CHLOE!

I do like Pretty In Pink. The soundtrack, the cast and everything. I watched it just the other day, in fact.

But Some Kind Of Wonderful just pulled at the heartstrings a bit more. It's now one of my favorite films... [Smile]
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
I would like to add that pretty in pink has to be one of the worst songs made for a movie.........and ever sang. That's the only song I can remember from either movie. I do look forward to watching these 2 flix after reading this thread.
It's a great song! Both versions! [Although the original is more raw, and the remake more slick - I can enjoy both, but the performance of the original has more... heart?]

quote:
Was talking to a friend about these movies today and he mentioned that he knows a guy that played an extra in SKoW. The extra said he was playing basketball nearbyon a day of filming and some of the main actors would come over and play also. Wouldn't that have been cool!
This is why it sucks to not have been a high school student in California in the 80's...

quote:
Logan - you're losing. Get over it, otherwise you'll become Jessica 6...
Nothing to get over! A winning streak is right around the corner - you'll see! I like being the underdog! PiP is clearly attracting a generally better quality of fan... even if the number isn't quite as large!

[Jessica 6 was hawt and you know it! Now what ever happened to Sci-Fi that delivered those kind of visions of the future to us?!]

quote:
The version of Pretty in Pink rearranged for the movie score basically stripped away everything that the Psychedelic Furs put into it originally. They were pushed into making it far more poppy and commercial, whereas the 1981 original from Talk Talk Talk is a far edgier tune and feel. One of my favorites...
Pretty sure I heard the producers wanted to use the original, but the band offered to re-record it to 'update' it - something they wound up regretting. Not sure where I read that though...
 
Posted by P_a_u_l (Member # 1022) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Logan 5:

quote:
The version of Pretty in Pink rearranged for the movie score basically stripped away everything that the Psychedelic Furs put into it originally. They were pushed into making it far more poppy and commercial, whereas the 1981 original from Talk Talk Talk is a far edgier tune and feel. One of my favorites...
Pretty sure I heard the producers wanted to use the original, but the band offered to re-record it to 'update' it - something they wound up regretting. Not sure where I read that though...
Ok, here's the thing. And for what it's worth, this came from the lips of a certain Richard Butler...

They really don't like the movie version, to the point that when gigging, they always play the original, without exception. They were talked into making it more poppy and preppy, but it quickly felt like a sell out, despite the new fans it brought them.

From a conversation between he and I, a couple of years ago at a gig after party in London...
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
I do like Pretty In Pink. The soundtrack, the cast and everything. I watched it just the other day, in fact.
Jedi.

quote:
But Some Kind Of Wonderful just pulled at the heartstrings a bit more. It's now one of my favorite films... [Smile]
Sith.

quote:
Ok, here's the thing. And for what it's worth, this came from the lips of a certain Richard Butler...

They really don't like the movie version, to the point that when gigging, they always play the original, without exception. They were talked into making it more poppy and preppy, but it quickly felt like a sell out, despite the new fans it brought them.

From a conversation between he and I, a couple of years ago at a gig after party in London...

Ha! Richard who?!

Ok, I get that they don't like it (the sound is very consistent with the 'Heartbreak Beat' era Furs which they often disparage - even though it's still good stuff), but were they pressured into it? Asked and said ok? Or did they offer? I seem to recall reading that the band offered and then regretted it...

Ok - ignore my questions above. I've found out where I read it. It was in the book 'Mad World' (highly recommended) and this is what Butler has to say:

"While we were writing songs for the second album [1981's Talk Talk Talk], we improved as songwriters. 'Pretty in Pink' just came to me, and I built the song about what that phrase conjured up. I always thought 'Pretty in Pink' was a song about a girl who sleeps around a lot and thinks she's very clever for doing it and feels very desired, but people are laughing at her behind her back. I don't think the movie Pretty in Pink did us any favours. It made light of and put a different spin on a song that actually had more to say than what the movie did. It's certainly less fluffy.
The story I heard [about how the song came to be the title of and theme song for the 1986 film] was that Molly Ringwald went up to John Hughes and said. "You've got to listen to this song. You've got to write something about this." Hughes [supposedly] loved it and went on to write the movie. The original version came out in 1981. It was a fairly well-known song, but in a college-radio situation. We rerecorded it for the movie. It was our idea. The record company was perfectly willing to go with the original version, which we should have. The original is better. It's not radically different, but I don't think it has the same rawness as the original."
 
Posted by P_a_u_l (Member # 1022) on :
 
Ok, from what I recall...

They were told about the movie theme (preppy teen instead of naked prostitute) and the other songs in the movie. They felt that the original version was a little too raw, as is mentioned above. They offered to update it (even though they knew the original version would be the better track), and it was a good/bad call: it won them fans but took them away from their roots. Thankfully they are now firmly back on track...
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
I can see why they did it. They were trying to sound a little slicker at the time, and probably thought a new version would sound more MTV friendly (echoes of Simple Minds recent US # 1 ringing in their ears?) Commercially it wasn't an altogether bad move as that period - thanks in part to PiP - was their most successful in the US. In retrospect I can see why sanitising their stuff to broaden appeal would be something they regret. The first version definitely sounds better, but the second version does fit the film better, so I don't think it was a bad move to rerecord it. I don't know, I just can't bring myself to dislike the version from the film because it's very similar to the original, and let's face it, The Psychedelic Furs, even when doing a slicker version of one of their songs, still sound better than most bands. Now if someone had covered it for the film... that might be a different story.
 
Posted by Nostalgic for the '80's (Member # 37454) on :
 
Good thread. I actually never saw either PIP or SKOW back in the '80's - despite being a teen at the time, I was never a huge John Hughes fan during that era - I did see both Breakfast Club & Ferris Bueller's Day Off during that time period (on VHS tape), but that was it.

It wasn't until the 200X's that I saw both PIP & SKOW on DVD - and, I thought both films were great & did remind me of being a teen.

I definitely found PIP to be the superior film, for many reasons:

- Even though I never saw the film back in the day, I do remember hearing songs from the film as a teen notably OMD's "If you Leave", "Bring on the Dancing Horses", "Pretty in Pink", "Left of Center", etc. And, I had bought the soundtrack on CD long before actually seeing the film. Very iconic, and the scenes the songs were played over were very appropriate. The soundtrack remains one of my favorite movie soundtracks of all time.

-The message about looking beyond someone's financial/social position in life & instead finding value in the type of person they are was quite powerful, and a good message/life lesson for anyone, no matter how old you are.

-The scene when MR had the conversation with her father (played by Harry Dean Stanton) about her mother leaving the family years before was quite poignant. Very deep for an '80's teen film.

-I didn't find Molly Ringwald's "rejection" of Ducky unrealistic at all. The characters had 0 romantic chemistry together, and it's obvious that Molly's character felt Ducky was just a friend and that was it - you got the strong impression she saw him as almost a brother. But, I never got the impression she was into him romantically.

I didn't really like the fact that she ended up with Andrew McCarthy since I never found AM that impressive as an actor. But, it is what it is & he was unavoidable in '80's films - i.e., I liked the movie despite his presence, not because of it.

-It was cool that the MR character worked at a record store. I'm a huge music fan, and it was nice to see this element in the film - especially since many dedicated record stores like this one have all closed in the past 5-10 years.

Conversely, while SKOW is a solid film (and I guess many liked the ending better than the ending of PIP), I just don't see it as iconic as PIP. It didn't have that impressive of a soundtrack & I thought the story was much more one-dimensional. I also didn't like how the Eric Stoltz character spent all of his money/savings & his time on a shallow b*$#@ - even though he "saw the light" @ the end and ended up with the right girl.

[ 02. November 2016, 09:48: Message edited by: Nostalgic for the '80's ]
 
Posted by aTomiK (Member # 6575) on :
 
Pretty in Pink 8/10

Hughes pretty much directed this one with Deutch and it shows.
Love the cast, especially Ringwald, Cryer, Spader and Stanton.

Some Kind of Wonderful 6/10

All kinds of trouble during the preproduction (Deutch out-Coolidge in-Deutch in) and it shows, Stoltz and Deutch didn´t speak.
Not 100% Hughes feel here and he was also moving away from teen films at this point.
Didn´t buy the sudden change during the finale.
 
Posted by P_a_u_l (Member # 1022) on :
 
It's amazing how wrong you people can be....
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by P_a_u_l:
It's amazing how wrong you people can be....

It may feel wrong... but you know it's right!

quote:
All kinds of trouble during the preproduction (Deutch out-Coolidge in-Deutch in) and it shows, Stoltz and Deutch didn´t speak.
Did you get this from the Hughes book? Expand on this please! I never knew about Coolidge being in (I find her a little annoying but I think she's a great Director).
 
Posted by aTomiK (Member # 6575) on :
 
Ok, here we go [Smile]

John had a script called Oil and Vinegar about a couple driving across country to attend a wedding. A talkathon film and both Broderick and Ringwald were interested.
So, Deutch grew frustrated in the casting process with Some Kind of wonderful and wanted to do Oil and vinegar and told this to Hughes. He got fired.

Enter Coolidge and the two had a great time working together, she says.
Masterson and Stoltz were already in and she cast Kim Delaney as Amanda and Kyle MacLachlan as Hardy Jenns.

The monday before the thursday start she got fired. "It was nothing you did" said executive producer Michael Chinich.
Soon she found out that Deutch was already interviewing replacement actors.
Delaney out-Thompson in, MacLachlan out- Sheffer in and they also wanted to replace Stoltz but big boss Ned Tanen said no.
John never called Coolidge to explain why he let her go. She was given another movie and we all know that was Plain Clothes.

Well, that´s the four pages story short. Some more details in the book of course and i say you should get the book, Logan. It´s pretty interesting stuff.
 
Posted by Logan 5 (Member # 1467) on :
 
I did mean to get it ages ago, but some of the Amazon reviews were mixed.

Her casting choices are interesting. Why did she get fired though?

Plain Clothes was a good movie too, so maybe it's a double win for the movie world. She does a commentary on the new DVD.
 


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