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Author Topic: Old School Rap Songs
Ronnie
Going to the Prom with Tommy
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wassup CT.

i like your selections, dude. and thank you for telling me who did FRIENDS. i remember WHODINI.

nice to see you back, btw. [Wink]

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MONSOON
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quote:
Originally posted by Stitchgroover:
I've been listening to C & C Music Factory, do they count?

ROFLMAO!!! My GAWD what a sucky group. And now some 12+ years later who comes along to fill that niche?
The Black Eyed Peas.. Complete with the Indian dude and no talent girl.
Lets Get Retarded!
Lets Get Retarded!

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rocksteadyflamethrower

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quote:
Originally posted by MONSOON:
quote:
Originally posted by Stitchgroover:
I've been listening to C & C Music Factory, do they count?

ROFLMAO!!! My GAWD what a sucky group. And now some 12+ years later who comes along to fill that niche?
The Black Eyed Peas.. Complete with the Indian dude and no talent girl.
Lets Get Retarded!
Lets Get Retarded!

The no-talent girl is named Stacy Ferguson and she got her start on that fine hunk of 80s gouda known as "Kids Incorporated".

I hate the group as much as you do.

Sincerely,

John Kilduff

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Valley

Dated Julie From 'Valley Girl' (allegedly!)
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Just an FYI, that no talent girl is probably a millionaire. Talent might be overrated....ya think?

Let's Get It Started! [Wink]

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rocksteadyflamethrower

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quote:
Originally posted by Valley:
Just an FYI, that no talent girl is probably a millionaire. Talent might be overrated....ya think?

Let's Get It Started! [Wink]

Please tell me you're only joking. Talent is the most important thing. There are millions of people out there who can sing better than most of who's out there today, but no one will ever have the opportunity to hear them because the music industry is based on looks and not talent.

I know the (bleep) is a millionaire, but she doesn't deserve a (bleep)ing penny and neither do most of who's out there. I won't deny that some of them can sing, but most of them can't.

Sincerely,

John Kilduff

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Brode
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Why exactly does she not deserve a penny? She can sing just fine. There may be better singers out there, but there's always better singers out there. Furthermore, she's in a band that has alot of melodic sensibility, plays music that is popular, and looks good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Duran Duran do the exact same thing? Motley Crue?
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rocksteadyflamethrower

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quote:
Originally posted by Brode:
Why exactly does she not deserve a penny? She can sing just fine. There may be better singers out there, but there's always better singers out there. Furthermore, she's in a band that has alot of melodic sensibility, plays music that is popular, and looks good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Duran Duran do the exact same thing? Motley Crue?

There's a difference between a band that provides a good time and a band with talent. Duran Duran and Motley Crue weren't talented, but they provided a good time. Likewise, the Black Eyed Peas provide a good time, but they aren't talented. Anybody can do what they do and probably better.

The truly talented ones are those who perform classical works and operatic works. Give a guy a guitar and he'll learn it within a year. On the other hand, people involved in operatic and classical works devote years to studying their craft and never feel they've reached perfection. Compare that to pop singers and bands who coast by on the same old song and dance they provide album after album. They don't aspire to anything else except sell-out crowds and merchandising. The only time pop singers and bands try to improve anything is when they try to improve the world and unless they're ready to toss away their instruments and devote their lives to the pursuit of politics, they should stay out of that business. The same would go for classically and operatically trained musicians as well.

That's my two cents...Keep the change.

Sincerely,

John Kilduff

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rocksteadyflamethrower

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Strike that...

Now that I think about it, I'm getting talent confused with impact on the entertainment industry.

In 20 years or so, everybody will have forgotten the Black Eyed Peas, but, for better or for worse, everyone will remember Eminem.

Can anybody outside of the well-studied remember the contemporaries of Sinatra, Presley, The Beatles, Madonna or Cobain? No, and there's a reason for that.

Each of the artists mentioned impacted the way we view music. With their style and lyricism, they've changed us. Sinatra made us swoon. Presley "shook things up" with his brand of rock-and-roll. The Beatles refined Presley's work to artistic levels. Madonna's lyrics and looks defined the sexual and economic aesthetics of the 80s. Cobain defined the view of 90s society.

Will the Black Eyed Peas be able to do anything along those lines? I don't think so. It's one thing to be talented...It's another to make an impact.

Sincerely,

John Kilduff

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Brode
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So basically you are comparing a young band to the legends of popular music? I think that's a rather trite assumption. I don't believe it to be fair to be comparing bands to the absolute pinnacle bands of eras. If every rock band that comes out has to do what Led Zeppelin did, has to do what AC DC did, has to do what Van Halen did, has to do what Metallica did, has to do what Guns and Roses did, has to do what Nirvana did, has to do what ETC did... suddenly we find ourselves in a never-ending turdswirl of pretentious snobocracy.

And I don't react to people complaining that pop music is pop music and classical is so much better. I also feel somewhat offended that I, a guitarist/singer/songwriter, am not talented because I don't wish to play Pagianni. And as for the quip about, anybody can do that... it's songwriting. If you really believe that anyone can write a great song, I suggest you get the hell out of music, and fast.

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rocksteadyflamethrower

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quote:
Originally posted by Brode:
So basically you are comparing a young band to the legends of popular music? I think that's a rather trite assumption. I don't believe it to be fair to be comparing bands to the absolute pinnacle bands of eras. If every rock band that comes out has to do what Led Zeppelin did, has to do what AC DC did, has to do what Van Halen did, has to do what Metallica did, has to do what Guns and Roses did, has to do what Nirvana did, has to do what ETC did... suddenly we find ourselves in a never-ending turdswirl of pretentious snobocracy.

And I don't react to people complaining that pop music is pop music and classical is so much better. I also feel somewhat offended that I, a guitarist/singer/songwriter, am not talented because I don't wish to play Pagianni. And as for the quip about, anybody can do that... it's songwriting. If you really believe that anyone can write a great song, I suggest you get the hell out of music, and fast.

If we're going to talk about pop music songwriting, then I find your wording pretentious. Of course anybody can write a great song. If a person puts their mind to it, they can do anything. The same goes for most pop bands. If they can think further than bump, grind and thrash, then they can also write great songs.

If they can't write songs, then there are plenty of talented people to write them for them. Frank Sinatra didn't write "My Way"...Paul Anka did. That song became a pop standard that's been done by all sorts of singers from Tony Bennett to Sid Vicious.

It's a matter of determination. You're talented. You've honed your craft. If you give another person enough time, then that person can do what you do. Who are you to say that some Joe from Walla Walla, Washington couldn't become the next Gershwin?

Sincerely,

John Kilduff

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Brode
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How exactly is my wording pretentious? I don't think I spoke through my nose or gave songwriting any more stock than it deserves.

Maybe you do not believe in creativity if you think any person can do what any other person can do, with training. Especially with songwriting. With training, yes, anyone can play Over The Hills And Far Away, but you need something else to write it. You think Anka's skill with a melody comes from just doing scales? There's intrinsic creativity that stems from it.

But I digress, since that is not what this argument is about.

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rocksteadyflamethrower

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You're right. Songwriting has nothing to do with this discussion.

So to get back to the matter:

What's wrong with trying to do what the pinnacle bands did? Aspiring to greatness is something that should be encouraged and not derided. I don't think there's anything snobbish about trying to be the best or trying to best the best.

Sincerely,

John Kilduff

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Brode
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There's nothing wrong with trying to be the beast. There's also nothing wrong with not being the best, which is where I think we differ.

Black Eyed Peas is a high-ranking contemporary on the new hip hop style, incorporating more funk, more beats and more anthemic vocal melodies than before. Actually, off-hand, I can't think of another band that has been as successful in their genre right now. There is alot of it in Toronto, though. I haven't heard their new single or album, but their last one had, what, 4 hits off it? Furthermore, they have more artistic integrity than popular bands that don't make their own beats and melodies.

Although, perhaps this doesn't matter, because it seems indie-core or screamo-core is the critically acclaimed music of this era.

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